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Star Wars: The Force Awakens

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Post by Dalu on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:28 pm

I didn't get a huge remake feeling either, except...well, I know the Skywalkers seem to start out on a desert planet and all that, but I think having Rey on Jakku was going too far. It's way too much like Tatooine (spelled wrong, I'm sure). The universe is so big and all--can't we see a different environment?

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Post by Not Em on Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:29 pm

I'm going to counter that opinion and say things because it's been time since I've said things. Spoilers, by the way.

Jakku and Similarities to ANH (also Starkkiller is dumb):

I was absolutely fine with Jakku. Was it visually similar? Sure, but I'm fine with that. I think inevitably there should be similar-looking planets. I'm fine that our hero is a loner desert character who finds a droid with important schematics and escapes on the Falcon, because that whole sequence included enough unique new events to feel fresh. Poe and Finn in the Tie Fighter, the Falcon chase, even a lot of the ground stuff felt new and cool and exciting.

I draw the line at Starkiller. Starkiller was stupid and shouldn't exist. The OG Death Star was a part of the plot at every turn, and the entire movie was spent building this up to be a horrible thing and the finale battle meant something. Starkiller is introduced maybe halfway through and halfheartedly tried to imitated the Death Star's scenes in weak ways. The final battle was schlock action that didn't have impact. To be fair, the climax of the film wasn't Starkiller, it was Ren and Rey's duel and the events leading there. In the end, that can be done without pointless Starkiller. It just is too much Death Star.

Alright, Tak. Here goes.

Kylo Ren:
Kylo Ren in TFA is more interesting to me than Vader in ANH. Vader in ANH looked cool and intimidating, and that was fine. He has little depth to that except his position in Luke and Ben's backstory, and that's fine. Vader gets built up a lot in following movies, but I'm ignoring that for the moment because we only have one movie with Kylo Ren, and so far Kylo Ren wins.

His whole frustration of 'being pulled to the light' was fascinating to me. I don't think I've ever seen a villain like that. Was Vader redeemed, sure, but we don't know if Ren knows that. We don't know if he cares - he could easily be idolizing Vader at his height. There's apparently a deleted scene where Snoke talks about empathy being Vader's weakness, but that's honestly not the point to me. Kylo Ren works for me because he's so flawed. We're seeing a broken, confused man who wants to be as big as Vader, but is caught up in his own flaws, and that's fascinating. I don't want 'big bad evil dude' again, we've gotten that. That's who Vader was. I'm excited to see Kylo Ren become that, to see he overcome his doubts and become a true villain in his own right. This is an origin story for him as much as Rey.

Han Solo:
That said, I think Solo's passing was perfect. It's not only a major point of everyone's character arcs in this movie, it's a perfect resolution to his arc. Han Solo starts ANH as a cynical scoundrel, ends RotJ as a Rebel general, and is introduced here giving others the Force exposition he derided originally. It's fantastic. But his new arc here, his dynamic with his son, works even better. It's a sensible direction for him to go, and it works here. Having his die pursuing his son in steadfast resolve to save him is such a perfect development from his origins. It's fantastic resolution, and I love that Solo gets to have an arc here. The prequels threw in OT characters just to have them there. Here, he gets to do something.

But the death doesn't just affect Solo's arc, it also impacts Rey and Finn's. These are characters that have grown to look up to Solo, and here Kylo Ren is straight-up murdering him. Not only are they going to be affected by this death, it also turns Kylo Ren into a legitimate character villain. The best part of the OT is how every time Luke and Vader see each other, their dynamic changes, and we're getting the same thing here. Kylo Ren isn't just evil because he's evil, he has a legitimate reason to fight our heroes and they have a reason to fight him. It works.

Rey's Power Rating:
I'm nebulous here. I think a lot of this ties to exactly what Rey's origins are. We know there's mystery with her family, and the easy assumption is she's Luke's kid or possibly was a former trainee, who had her memory erased or something. The theory is these powers were in her all along, and are now awakening - which, sure, that might be 'bad' writing. But I'm fine with that. In ANH Luke flew a vehicle he'd never touched before and used the Force to one-shot a space station. In the end, these films are escapist fantasy. We draw to these characters because they're like us - we can say 'I can do that'. The Force is nebulous because it's there to say 'this could be you'. That's why midichlorians are stupid - they turn something anyone can access into biological junk.

Other Points:
The Luke Map was pretty haphazard, yeah. It could have been made into a bigger thing, more maps, having R2 not happen to have the rest, etc. But it's a plot device to push the franchise forward so... eh?

X-Wings are instantly recognizable are pretty much the reason. I was a tad disappointed with the lack of new ships, but apparently we're getting A-Wings in the next movie, so yay?

Re: Kylo's training... it's stated in-movie it's incomplete. Plus, Kylo Ren overcompensates, he wants to look imposing but really isn't. That's his whole thing. We're getting there. Also, there's the next point.

I'm sure how Solo taking the bowcaster is OOC? Either way, it's there to set up that Chewie's bowcaster is powerful, so that when he weakens Kylo Ren with it people go 'oh Kylo Ren is injured in this fight'. Ultimately, a lot of people missed that.

Basically, yeah, but I didn't have a lot of issue with that.

I still don't see why we keep getting hung up on this. Are males biologically better soldiers? Maybe, but that doesn't make females instantly ineligible. Just about every modern military has females, is there any reason the First Order can't?

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Post by The Cracken on Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:12 am

Random note: Pretty much the reason Solo died is because Harrison Ford's been asking for that to happen since before the OT was even complete. Razz

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Post by Johnnyred on Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:26 am

Yeah.... he did actually ask Lucas to kill him off in the second Battle of the Deathstar in Ep. VI and even suggested killing him in V.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Post by RandomEncounter on Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:02 pm

He only agreed to IV in the first place on the agreement that his character would be killed off, as a favor to Lucas. Then Lucas wouldn't kill him off for three movies, and even changed the plans in the last movie because he wanted a happy ending. xD

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Post by Doctor Who on Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:44 pm

^ this is one of those areas where I prefer to compartmentalise fiction and reality and ignore the reality part, since actors shouldn't tell the storywriter what to do Razz

I think there were a lot of moments in the original movies where Vader clearly had a battle between light and dark going on inside him, but he wasn't an emotional teenager Razz

"it also turns Kylo Ren into a legitimate character villain"
I would agree that he wasn't a legitimate villain before that, but I don't think he's much of one after either Razz  Han Solo would've been smarter than to just walk up to him like that, even if he was his son.

I agree 100% that midichlorians are dumb  EPIC DUEL

"But it's a plot device to push the franchise forward so... eh?"

Again, I'd compartmentalise here. I don't care about the franchise even slightly Razz  I just care about the story. If one interferes with the other, I consider their idea of the story to be illegitimate because it was corrupted by reality. And yes, I can think of a lot of comebacks and qualifications to what I just said, but I'm out of time atm Razz

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